Hi! I'm not sure if I can just pass his email out here, but you can just post your feedback here or over at the 11secondclub, we have a thread for the elevenrig there, and I can point him towards it, if he doesn't reply :)
When the rig CC_Global control is rotated 180' in Z (in fact more than 90' degree will do it) the character's eyes cross. Shouldn't a Look At Constraint be used for the eyes?
In the scene he is facing (in the front view) away from the camera.
Here is an adjusted scene for 3ds Max 2013 which deals with some of the points below, which can be downloaded here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9344219/Eleven_Edited.max
These are points to check: Many of the face controls for the morphs in the GUI expand the back of the head. This can be alleviated by throwing an FFD3 on the hair_boy mesh and shifting the top and back out a bit.
GoldBlackFill texture doesn't seem to be used on the model but could be replaced by a 16x16 checker map.
MT Ape Head texture isn't used and should be removed.
The diffuse for the body and head may as well be a color rather than bitmap.
It would be better to model the teeth into the mouth and skin them firmly to a upper and lower palette bone and allow some stretch from the lip as currently the teeth (particularly the upper) free floats and looks weird from below. Perhaps the lower border of the gum could be pulled by the inner mouth verts.
The Hair_Boy cut has 6 times the poly count of the body. Maybe it should be Pro-optimised with Merged Vertices turned on. Then users can turbosmooth it at render time.
In v2013 it would be possibly beneficial to add a Turn To gPoly modifier to the body mesh. There is a Relax modifier under the Morpher modifier -- deliberately? Maybe it should be above?
The Meshsmooth on eyes, head, body and hair could be an instanced Turbosmooth on at render time as in the view it doesn't seem necessary to smooth him out.
The sub-object material for the teeth has a None entry in the (1) diffuse bitmap, which should be removed and a white color and maybe a bit of glossy added for the diffuse.
A Free camera can be placed in front of the GUI panel and linked to it so that a view can be dedicated to it.
I wish all feedback could be like this...Thank you.
Before I get into all these fixes or observations for the next release...I can talk to some points.
I knew about the eyes, though not about the affect with rotation. There is a look at constraint built into a helper, but perhaps it's the location of the helper in the eye I need to move. The eyes are oval and a pain to work with.
I also knew about the MT Ape Head texture coming up, it wasnt going to be there for the next release.
The model has a multi sub object with all the individual colors assigned to it and that's how the scene starts. I did do a uv unwrap for those who have the knowledge in changing the colors in Photoshop, but the default scene allows for changes in the material editor under 1 node...isn't this what you have?
All of the hairstyles (exception "Old Man' and 'mohawk')were done by others and I completely agree about the number of verts. Yes, I could have optimized them and other parts of the model, but I will explain why I didn't take that step at this time.
It was decided early on that the Max version should be as exact a duplicate as the Maya version (for which all model objects were brought over from). This put me in the quandary of not being able to do a proper optimization.
The tools being used by the eleven community should be the same on all levels so that no one has an undue advantage.
Otherwise, for instance, I would have immediately changed the eyes to spherical....fixing the eye problem all together.
Where I deviated from this were eye sockets...which took care of the eye penetration problem by allowing me to sink them further in the head. The GoldBlackFill was just an early checkered texture I used for unwraps...I've since moved on to better ones. It will get tossed. As for the teeth and mouth, once again you and I are on the same page. I actually did start modeling the teeth and inner mouth into the head. Early skinning tests showed the base head working fine, but the morphs, especially at extreme contortions....proved fatal. So in the interest of time, I went back to what I was given from the Maya version just to get the alpha out....I'll look at it again though. I wasn't planning to upgrade to 2013, so I'm not sure about the gpoly modifier...I'll look into it, but it will probably be low priority....in the same vein, the Brekel system. There was a Camera attached to the Gui Panel, now I see it's not there...what happened to that...:( As for the entire list, it was excellent and I will look at each point in the next release. You're the first person Tom to address this rig to this level. Thank you for taking time out of your schedule to do so.
Chris is a little bit busy with some projects, so I will do the debugging for now. I fixed the eyes, and I examined the rig and found some other issues, the one Tom has found will be fixed also:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3894181/Eleven.zip
[x]Eyes flip 180 degrees [ ]Morph Targets (Blend Shapes) are scaled, so we have to fix this in order to use more then one Morph Target at a time [ ]Boy and Girl hair is one object, I've fixed it, but not in this version. [ ]Skinning in hands could have some more attention.
The project continues to be worked on and Edwin has done some great 'user-friendly' things with the file...no word on when the next release will be as it's a w.i.p.
Hello everyone, I've just try this rig a bit and I really like it. I've find two "problems" while animating: - When the head is turned 90° (CC_Head01 in Y), the Eye LookAt Constraint does not act correctly - When animating CC_R_ArmIK01 & CC_L_ArmIK01, I had several Gimbal related issues.
May I try to make a MotionBuilder Rig for Eleven (without stretch&squash spine..) ?
Hello !
ReplyDeleteI wanted to thank Chris Donnelly for his superb work!
Rigs on 3dsmax, there are few if any of very good quality.
So a big thank you!
Ps: I am looking for his email address to make him some feedback, where can I find it?
Hi!
DeleteI'm not sure if I can just pass his email out here, but you can just post your feedback here or over at the 11secondclub, we have a thread for the elevenrig there, and I can point him towards it, if he doesn't reply :)
Alternately, you can click on his name to the left, under contributors, and shoot him a message there somewhere :)
DeleteThank you for that...it means alot. I hope that people will get alot out of it.
ReplyDeleteChris
Do you think 11 rig could be repurposed for use with the Cascade facial bone structure used by Brekel Kinect Pro (the face capture utility) ?
ReplyDeleteWhen the rig CC_Global control is rotated 180' in Z (in fact more than 90' degree will do it) the character's eyes cross. Shouldn't a Look At Constraint be used for the eyes?
ReplyDeleteIn the scene he is facing (in the front view) away from the camera.
Here is an adjusted scene for 3ds Max 2013 which deals with some of the points below, which can be downloaded here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9344219/Eleven_Edited.max
These are points to check:
Many of the face controls for the morphs in the GUI expand the back of the head. This can be alleviated by throwing an FFD3 on the hair_boy mesh and shifting the top and back out a bit.
GoldBlackFill texture doesn't seem to be used on the model but could be replaced by a 16x16 checker map.
MT Ape Head texture isn't used and should be removed.
The diffuse for the body and head may as well be a color rather than bitmap.
It would be better to model the teeth into the mouth and skin them firmly to a upper and lower palette bone and allow some stretch from the lip as currently the teeth (particularly the upper) free floats and looks weird from below. Perhaps the lower border of the gum could be pulled by the inner mouth verts.
The Hair_Boy cut has 6 times the poly count of the body.
Maybe it should be Pro-optimised with Merged Vertices turned on. Then users can turbosmooth it at render time.
In v2013 it would be possibly beneficial to add a Turn To gPoly modifier to the body mesh.
There is a Relax modifier under the Morpher modifier -- deliberately? Maybe it should be above?
The Meshsmooth on eyes, head, body and hair could be an instanced Turbosmooth on at render time as in the view it doesn't seem necessary to smooth him out.
The sub-object material for the teeth has a None entry in the (1) diffuse bitmap, which should be removed and a white color and maybe a bit of glossy added for the diffuse.
A Free camera can be placed in front of the GUI panel and linked to it so that a view can be dedicated to it.
I wish all feedback could be like this...Thank you.
ReplyDeleteBefore I get into all these fixes or observations for the next release...I can talk to some points.
I knew about the eyes, though not about the affect with rotation. There is a look at constraint built into a helper, but perhaps it's the location of the helper in the eye I need to move. The eyes are oval and a pain to work with.
I also knew about the MT Ape Head texture coming up, it wasnt going to be there for the next release.
The model has a multi sub object with all the individual colors assigned to it and that's how the scene starts. I did do a uv unwrap for those who have the knowledge in changing the colors in Photoshop, but the default scene allows for changes in the material editor under 1 node...isn't this what you have?
All of the hairstyles (exception "Old Man' and 'mohawk')were done by others and I completely agree about the number of verts. Yes, I could have optimized them and other parts of the model, but I will explain why I didn't take that step at this time.
It was decided early on that the Max version should be as exact a duplicate as the Maya version (for which all model objects were brought over from). This put me in the quandary of not being able to do a proper optimization.
The tools being used by the eleven community should be the same on all levels so that no one has an undue advantage.
Otherwise, for instance, I would have immediately changed the eyes to spherical....fixing the eye problem all together.
Where I deviated from this were eye sockets...which took care of the eye penetration problem by allowing me to sink them further in the head.
The GoldBlackFill was just an early checkered texture I used for unwraps...I've since moved on to better ones. It will get tossed.
As for the teeth and mouth, once again you and I are on the same page. I actually did start modeling the teeth and inner mouth into the head. Early skinning tests showed the base head working fine, but the morphs, especially at extreme contortions....proved fatal. So in the interest of time, I went back to what I was given from the Maya version just to get the alpha out....I'll look at it again though.
I wasn't planning to upgrade to 2013, so I'm not sure about the gpoly modifier...I'll look into it, but it will probably be low priority....in the same vein, the Brekel system.
There was a Camera attached to the Gui Panel, now I see it's not there...what happened to that...:(
As for the entire list, it was excellent and I will look at each point in the next release.
You're the first person Tom to address this rig to this level. Thank you for taking time out of your schedule to do so.
Chris is a little bit busy with some projects, so I will do the debugging for now. I fixed the eyes, and I examined the rig and found some other issues, the one Tom has found will be fixed also:
ReplyDeletehttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3894181/Eleven.zip
[x]Eyes flip 180 degrees
[ ]Morph Targets (Blend Shapes) are scaled, so we have to fix this in order to use more then one Morph Target at a time
[ ]Boy and Girl hair is one object, I've fixed it, but not in this version.
[ ]Skinning in hands could have some more attention.
Hi!
DeleteVery cool, thanks! I'll update the download links right away. Shall I still call it 0.9 alpha or something else, now? Maybe beta?
Cheers!
Lets make it an Alpha 2.0. And let's get Edwin van het Bolscher's name in there as a split credit. Thanks
ReplyDeleteThe project continues to be worked on and Edwin has done some great 'user-friendly' things with the file...no word on when the next release will be as it's a w.i.p.
ReplyDeleteOh Nice!!
ReplyDeleteI look forward :)
Thank you!
Hello everyone,
ReplyDeleteI've just try this rig a bit and I really like it.
I've find two "problems" while animating:
- When the head is turned 90° (CC_Head01 in Y), the Eye LookAt Constraint does not act correctly
- When animating CC_R_ArmIK01 & CC_L_ArmIK01, I had several Gimbal related issues.
May I try to make a MotionBuilder Rig for Eleven (without stretch&squash spine..) ?
There have been several changes to the rig since the initial eye fix went up. Edwin has redone most of it. I'll see if he can post an update.
ReplyDeleteAntonin,
ReplyDeleteYou can do what ever you want with the rig...it's open source.
Here you go ;-)
ReplyDeletehttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3894181/Eleven_CleanSlate.max
Thanks, both of you
ReplyDeleteHello guys and girls
ReplyDeletehere is a first MotionBuilder version of the rig :
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8uzg0v1pax41lye/ElevenRig.zip?dl=1
feel free to test it and give me feedback
have fun
I don't have MotionBuilder to test it with, but I suggest we get that link on the main page.
ReplyDeleteALL rights
ReplyDelete